Confederate heritage honored with flag

Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Saturday afternoon, under a blistering sun in Trimble, a passionate crowd estimated at around 300 from five different states attended the Confederate Battle Flag dedication. The Gen. Otho French Strahl, Camp 176 of the Sons of Confederate Veterans at Parks Cemetery Ridge Confederate Memorial Plaza presented the flag. The site was chosen by its highly visible location adjacent to the new Highway 69 corridor that will run between Canada and Mexico.

The flag, which is 20 feet-by-30 feet, can be seen for several miles in all directions as it sits atop an 85-foot flagpole, and overlooks the Obion River Bottom. It is at the Dyer/Obion county line at State Highway 105, in Trimble. This project is part of a 'Mega-Flags' project that will place the battle flag in prominent locations across the South.

Commander Bill Foster, lifetime member of the SCV, said that the flagpole itself was $13,000 and the flag was around $1,200. The estimated monthly cost of maintenance and electricity will be around $200. Funds were provided by the SCV. The flag will fly 24 hours a day, seven days a week and will be illuminated at night in the near future.

"This particular flag will last about a year before it needs to be replaced," said Foster.

The area will be landscaped and contain a granite marker from the old Richmond Theater in Richmond, Va. The marker will be inscribed to Confederate soldiers and contain the SCV charge. The Richmond Theater is where Jefferson Davis attended plays and John Wilkes Booth was a performer.

Mr. and Mrs. Hamilton Parks II, of Trimble, donated the parcel of land. The flag is just north of where Mr. Parks' great-great-grandfather had a log cabin, and is subsequently located across from Pierce Cemetery, where 11 Confederate soldiers lie in rest.

Guests were presented with a program and CD entitled "The Truth Concerning the Confederate Battle Flag". They were also able to purchase Confederate ancestor memorial bricks that will be laid in the plaza. The 15th Tennessee, Company E, New Madrid Guards, performed the Presentation of Colors. Guest speakers were Mr. Greg Briggs, Dr. Michael Bradley and Dr. Lonnie Maness. Hamilton Parks II was the day's honoree and received a commendation award and medal.

Maness, retired UTM professor and author, spoke on the fundamental causes of the Civil War, during which he said, "We should never forget our heritage."

Following the speakers was a musket salute by the 15th Tennessee, Company E, New Madrid Guards. Then the Pillow Battery, Company K, 1st Tennessee Artillery, Camp 257, performed an artillery salute. Jan Hensley, president of the local OCR, then laid a wreath. A touching, "I Am Their Flag", was read by Dr. Bradley, Tennessee division commander of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. The Retiring of the Colors was done followed by Taps, performed by Scott Reed. Musical guest was Rick Revel, founder of Heritage Keepers of America, who performed "Dixie". Also in attendance was Dennis Strayhorn, whose great-grandfather rode with Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest.

After the ceremony, Dr. Maness noted that the flag is not a symbol of racism. "The Confederate battle flag is no more a symbol of racism than the U.S. flag, that flew over slavery for 89 years," said Maness. "Slavery was legal in all 13 colonies and the U.S. flag was not considered a racist flag. And surely the Confederate battle flag that flew for only four years shouldn't be considered as such." Also, Dr. Maness said that the Southern states were fighting for state's rights, the right to defend their homes and relatives and for the right of self-determination.

SCV commander Bill Foster stated that the flag is a soldier's flag based on St. Andrew's Cross (the national flag of Scotland), designed to distinguish it from the U.S. flag. "We, the Sons of Confederate Veterans are here to portray the South, not defend it," said Foster.

For more information concerning the Sons of Confederate Veterans visit www.scv.com or call 1-800-MYDIXIE. To purchase memorial bricks call 731-693-4469.

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  • WELL.....LET'S GET IT STARTED.....

    -- Posted by DMASE on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 6:34 PM
  • i find it hard to believe that the state gazette uses so much of the front page to cover this story, but they did. several column inches and huge pictures.

    i know that trimble doesn't get it's share of publicity--but this kind and at a time such as this?

    we need to learn about the people and the duties that they will be performing in the election that's just around the corner. interviews with the chancery court candidates, with the types of cases heard in this court would be very fitting. we would also like to learn about those seeking state representative seats,and the senate.

    we should not have to depend on paid advertisements in the media for them (the media, including the state gazette)to be doing their duty of informing the voters.

    we should also be updated daily on the city and county budgets, and tax increases that are just around the corner. can't you people just ask who, what, when, where & why??

    jerry osborne

    -- Posted by closerlook on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 9:22 PM
  • Good for the Dyersburg paper to cover this story. The Union City paper has not had anything in the last 2 days about the dedication. To me people who have a problem with the battle flag are the ones who are racists.

    -- Posted by reenactor on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 10:56 PM
  • jaydwain....where is your comment??? AND DMASE........what exactly is it that YOU are trying to say??????

    -- Posted by proud2BnTN on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 11:01 PM
  • So, Mr. Osborne, what you're saying is forget that we had soldiers who faught and died being memoralized, let's hear the same lies politicians are going to start telling us later in the year? Well let me go ahead and give you a run-down of what you're going to get from both candidates. Lies. End of story.

    -- Posted by elementarymydearwatson on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 11:16 PM
  • Gen. Otho French Strahl presented the flag? Cool! He died in 1864 in the Battle of Franklin.

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 11:37 PM
  • States rights...Florida invoked its states right in the 2000 Presidential election only to see Bushes cronies run to the federal courts...The hypocrisy kills me!!! If you dare challenge me please have facts an logical arguments to justify your position and keep an open mind to debate. I challenge anyone on states rights and the confederate flag...Its all a big lie!!! The confederate flag is a racist symbol born in the south bred, bred in the south under the auspices of states rights BS.

    -- Posted by win2kadm on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 12:51 AM
  • God bless all the soldiers that fought and died for this country including my Confederate brothers. Let the Confederate flag fly. My heart swells with pride every time I see her! I know her true meaning, not what these modern day Al Gore, tree huggin' liberals have labeled her to be and have effectively rewritten our schools history books to show.

    O, I wish I was in the land of cotton

    Old times there are not forgotten

    Look away! Look away!

    Look away! DIXIE LAND!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by youknowimright on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 1:26 AM
  • Yep, God bless them one and all. My great-great-grandfather on my mama's side proudly marched with the Indiana 9th Infantry and my greatgreat-grandfather on daddy's side rode with the mighty Tennessee regiment. They met up at the battle of Shiloh, both went awol and stumbled upon a Decatur County moonshine still. By the time they sobered up the war was over and they'd populated a sizable portion of Parsons.

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:12 AM
  • WELL PROUD....IT'S NOT THE FLAG THATS THE CONTROVERSY...THE FLAG HAS A VERY HUGE EFFECT ON HISTORY...NOBODY'S IS TRIPPING ON THAT..IT'S HATE GROUPS THAT USES THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AS A SYMBOL FOR IDENTIFICATION THAT MAKES PEOPLE GO HMMM......EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND AND HONOR THE PURPOSE OF WHATEVER FLAG THEY CHOOSE TO FLY, BUT IF THE FLAG I FLY IS USED BY A HATE GROUP, THEN I WOULD HAVE TO ASK MYSELF WHAT DO I STAND FOR..NOW, IF IT IS USED FOR NEGATITIVY, THAT'S A PERSONS PREFERENCE...THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY....I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE GAZETTE DO A ARTICLE ON THE FLAG TO GIVE A UNDERSTANDING OF THE HISTORY OF IT..JUST THIS SUBJECT ALONE WILL REALLY LET YOU KNOW HOW DIVIDED AMERICA IS...IS THAT BETTER PROUD?...

    -- Posted by DMASE on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 7:36 AM
  • Confederate soldiers did not die for this country. They died in an attempt to disband from this country.

    If a German-born person hung a Nazi flag above their door and said it was in memory of their ancestors, he'd be crucified. This is no different. The confederate flag is a symbol of hatred. People that would have rather left this country than give the human beings they "owned" a chance at a better life..

    -- Posted by grasshopper46 on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 7:39 AM
  • Hate groups use a regular American Flag as well. They do what they can to get attention. It's kind of their thing.

    -- Posted by miked on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 8:02 AM
  • I bet the people that are happy to see the confederate flag fly are the same ones that rejoice and send around the e-mail forward of the Vietnam veteran cutting down the Mexican flag from the front of the restaurant..

    -- Posted by grasshopper46 on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 8:03 AM
  • There were several confederate flags - we seem to only remember the battle flag.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 8:22 AM
  • charley, if you read on you will see that the flag we use today is actually a flag where the navy jack and the battle flag have been combined. Which makes flying it all the more ridiculous. If it were the actual original design, the "history of the south" argument might have arguable grounds. The new confederate flag is only about thirty years old.

    -- Posted by grasshopper46 on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 8:33 AM
  • OUT NUMBERED ,OUT RESOURCED, OUT FINANCED 250,000 PLUS CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS DIED .SOMETIMES FIGHTING WITH ONLY STICKS ,STONES OR WHAT EVER THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON.95%NEVER OWNED A SLAVE .THESE MEN EARNED THEIR PLACE IN HISTORY .STANDING GROUND AND FIGHTING LIKE THE 300 AGAINST THE PERSIAN ARMY .KNOWING THEY COULD NOT WIN, CONTINUED TO FIGHT LIKE ANY REAL WARRIORS .HISTORY ONLY TELLS THE SIDE THEY WANT TOLD WHICH IS USUALLY DONE BY THE WINNING SIDE .THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION WAS NOT WRITTEN AND READ UNTIL THE END OF THIS WAR, NOT THE REASON FOR THE BEGINING OF THE WAR .PEOPLE CANNOT CHANGE HISTORY ONLY THEMSELVES. SOME PEOPLE WILL CLAIM RACISM AND FEAR. THIS FLAG HAS NO POWER TO HURT ANYONE, ONLY HONOR WHEN REMEMBERING FALLEN MEN WHO FOUGHT BEYOND THEIR MEANS .

    -- Posted by BIZCUITZNGRAVY on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 9:15 AM
  • To me the confederate flag is not a racial hate thing but I know it is to many people. For that reason I'd never fly it in my yard. I wish we could be a little more understanding of each others feelings and perspectives on this issue but that will probably never be the case.

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 9:25 AM
  • What a waste of paper space. Think! We do have a young ladies softball team on the brink of winning a World Series as well as many other positive things happening in the community. Your motto should be "Gain from others Pain". Can we please proceed?

    -- Posted by HasBeen77 on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 10:15 AM
  • I agree with win2kadm and grasshopper46. In MY opinion, the Confederate flag is not patriotic. It is *technically* a flag from a different country.. And yes, the South broke away from the rest of the country as the Confederate States of America, just making sure everyone knows.

    And another thing, the Confederate flag is a symbol of a non-existant government or country or whatever its governmental designation was. You don't see everyone else where the colonies were hanging up colonial flags alongside their American flags? Please correct me if I am wrong.

    -- Posted by wakka092 on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 10:30 AM
  • It always amazes me as to the lack of historical knowledge people have about the Civil War. They just choose to rant and rave because they heard something somewhere (but can't remember where) and take it for gospel. I am proud that I am a direct ancestor of the Chief Surgeon of Nathan Bedford Forrest. Those who claim to know so much probably can't even name him, or the good he did following the tragic war that is a part of our history. Thank you Mr. Parks for the efforts and contributions you have made over the years to keep our proud heritage alive for those of us who are proud of our forefathers.

    -- Posted by cadizpub on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 11:00 AM
  • TREASON ?The Confederate States of America did not attempt to overthrow the government of the United States of America. The CSA was no more interested in overthrowing Washington DC in 1861-65 than George Washington was in overthrowing England in 1775-83. The CSA constitutionally, legally, and honorably seceded from the Union with the USA and formed a new nation just as America seceded from England. In both cases the seceding nation was promptly invaded. Treason? At the end of the Civil War U.S. officials made plans to try and convict former Confederate President Jefferson Davis for treason. Four U.S. legal teams looked at the case and told the U.S. officials that secession was legal and that Davis would be found not guilty. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Chase confirmed that secession was legal and that it would be a mistake to try to convict Davis or any former Confederate. The USA had conducted an unconstitutional and criminal war and had won and a trial would expose that fact. Lincoln acted with deceit in the Fort Sumter incident. The USA was the aggressor. Yes the CSA fired the first shot but it was in response to an act of war that was already being carried out by the USA.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 11:17 AM
  • The Confederate States of America and the Old South was a classical civilization with colleges and universities, art and literature, world class architecture, politics with superior statesmen, and a fine military. It was driven by slave labor just as the classical civilizations of Egypt, Greece, and Rome were. Regardless, slavery was a dying institution and virtually all educated Southerners knew this. It had ended peacefully in the rest of the Western Hemisphere but in America the Northern radicals, fanatics, zealots, and industrialists used it as a scapegoat to attack and subjugate the Southern states for the cause of empire and to exploit the South's resources. The famous English writer Charles Dickens stated " The Northern onslaught upon Southern slavery is a specious piece of humbug designed to mask their desire for the economic control of the Southern States". The Confederacy deserves to be honored, remembered and respected.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 11:21 AM
  • The Confederate flag is 180 degrees diametrically opposed to Globalism, Socialism and Secular humanism. That is the real reason globalists, socialists, and atheists want to ban it. The infamous Communist Vladmir Lenin coined the term "Useful Idiots". The Socialist Karl Marx stated "People separated from their heritage are easily persuaded". Many Black Americans and White Liberals who are opposed to the Confederate flag have been indoctrinated by those who would convert America to Total Socialism and Secular Humanism. They have been told that the Confederate flag represents a painful reminder of slavery and racism and bigotry and that they should be offended by it.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 11:27 AM
  • I wish we could be a little more understanding of each others feelings and perspectives on this issue but that will probably never be the case.

    -- Posted by charleyraww

    Spoken by someone that hasn't tried to view the OTHER perspective. The flag is horribly offensive to a large number of the population in this area. To them, it represents oppression. The ancestors THEY associate with the flag were killed, beaten, raped, and enslaved senselessly.

    What makes YOUR heritage more important than theirs? This isn't 1812. They have rights, too, and should not have to look at this flag (which holds NO purpose in today's government) flying high along with the flag of our country. You want a confederate flag? Great. Hang one at YOUR house. Not in a public place that we ALL share.

    If my kids can't pray at school because the entire country doesn't share in Christian beliefs, why should this flag-that offends so many- hang at the plaza?

    -- Posted by grasshopper46 on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 12:36 PM
  • Are you sure of that, grasshopper?

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:09 PM
  • The Confederate Flag and the United States Flag are judged by different standards and criteria, and are not held to the same levels of accountability. In analytical science and weights and measures, comparisons are made against known standards. However, in politics comparisons are never made in a fair and impartial manner.

    Political Correctness has been used to attempt bans of The Confederate Flag from schools, parades, public and private property, and even historical monuments and sites.

    The Confederate flag represents Constitutional Limited Federal Government, States Rights, Resistance to Government Tyranny, and Christian Values and Principles. To say that it represents racism and bigotry is a negative and shallow interpretation comparable to saying the U.S. flag represents the genocide of the American Indians and abortion.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:27 PM
  • Hypocrisy, ignorance, and bias have been directed against the Confederate Flag. Compare the U.S. Flag (Stars and Stripes). The genocide and racial cleansing of the American Indians took place under the U.S. Flag. Their land was taken without fair and just compensation. Indians died by the thousands as they were forced on to reservations and subjected to starvation and deadly diseases. In the American West, cavalry troopers murdered entire villages including babies in their mother's arms.

    Slaves were imported from Africa to America primarily by five Northern States: New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island. New York City had the second highest slave population in America. The Confederate Flag was not involved in the importation of slaves. Finally, the U.S. Flag flies over a nation that has murdered an estimated 50 million babies by abortion.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:29 PM
  • EVERY South hater and Confederate flag hater I ever met or heard or read about

    demonstrates one thing, IGNORANCE, regarding history in general and

    Southern history in particular.

    They have been programmed like robots to hate ALL things Southern.

    Their PC program, operating in government schools, TV and "mainstream

    press" for fifty years, has been very successful in transforming the

    youth of "Amerika" to PC cannon fodder in their campaign to "win the

    hearts and minds" (and souls) of the nation.

    They need a scapegoat to put all blame for all evils on, and since there

    was a cultural difference, WE Southerners, are chosen to be hated and

    reviled and blamed. This gave them the added benefit of demagoguing the

    "race card" and creating a voting bloc close to a hundred percent in

    their total control.

    Thus, all Northeastern elitists and their indoctrinated PC converts

    everywhere rewrote history into the phony fable that Southern Whites

    invented slavery and that our sole aim in seceding was to perpetuate

    slavery forever, and that if the South had won, African Americans in

    the South would all be beaten and abused bond slaves today, in 2008. Historical records show that most slaves were treated well. Liberals seem convinced that they were constantly beaten, abused, raped etc. Original writings by Northern and European visitors of the era show that most were treated better than most white Northern factory workers. The Slave Narratives are recorded interviews in the early 1930's with old former slaves. The slaves tell of kind treatment by their old masters. Liberals seem unwilling to be educated on this matter. Liberalism is all about feelings and beliefs--not facts.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:43 PM
  • The North was Responsible For The Development Of Slavery In America. Massachusetts Was The 1st Colony To Legalize Slavery By Statute In 1641. They had began enslaving the Pequot Indians shortly after the arrival of the Pilgrims in 1620. In Virginia a 7 year Indentured Servitude existed from 1607 until 1654. Anthony Johnson, a Free black, went before the courts of Virginia (English Court) and successfully obtained lifetime ownership of John Casor another black man. Thus the father of Southern slavery was a black man. Four New England States, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire Along With New York Were Responsible For The Vast Majority Of The Slave Trade From The Mid 1600's Until It Ended On April 21,1861.

    On That Date The U.S. Sloop Of War "Saratoga" Captured The Slave Ship "Nightingale" With 900 Slaves Aboard. This Slave Ship Was Owned,Manned And Equipped By The City Of Boston, Massachusetts. The Captain Of The Ship Saratoga Was John Julius Guthrie,A U.S.Naval Officer,Who Soon Resigned And Joined The Confederate Service. This Is A Matter Of Record On File At The Navy Department In Washington. The Last Capture Of A Slaver Was By A Southern Officer And The "Good" People Of Massachusetts Were Engaged In Slave Trading Even At The Beginning Of "The War Between The States" (CIVIL WAR).

    The 1st Slave Ship In America "The Desire" Was Fitted Out In Marblehead, Massachusetts. Dubois, A Famous Black Historian Wrote "The American Slave Trade Came To Be Carried On Principally By United States Capital, In United States Ships Officered By United States Citizens And Under The United States Flag."

    Mr. Cecil Chesterman, A Distinguished English Historian, In His "History Of The United States" Says On This Point, "The North Had Been The Original Slave Traders. The African Slave Trade Had Been Their Particular Industry. Boston Itself Had Risen To Prosperity On The Profits Of The Abominable Traffic." Mr. Chesterman Asks "What Could Exceed The Hypocrisy Of New England Men Who Reproach The South With Grave Personal Sin In Owning Property Which They Themselves Sold Southerners And The Price Of Which Is Still In Their Pockets".

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 3:21 PM
  • SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS RESOLUTION CONDEMNING MISUSE OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND SYMBOLS.

    WHEREAS, the use of the Confederate Battle Flag by extremist political groups and individuals who seek to clothe themselves in respectability by misappropriating the banner under which our Southern ancestors fought for a Cause which was noble and,

    WHEREAS, the Sons of Confederate Veterans are the true inheritors of legacy and symbols for which the Confederate Veterans fought and died; and

    WHEREAS, the Sons of Confederate Veterans does denounce the use of the Confederate Battle Flag and any other Confederate Symbol by any hate group and/or the Ku Klux Klan as the desecration of a symbol to which any hate group and/ or the KU Klux Klan has no claim; and

    WHEREAS, the misuse of the Confederate Battle Flag by any extremist group or individual espousing political extremism and/ or racial superiority degrades the Confederate Battle Flag and maligns the noble purpose of our ancestors who fought against extreme odds for what they knew was just, right, and constitutional; and

    WHEREAS,the misuse of other flags and symbols of the Confederate States of America and the Confederate States Army, Navy, and Marines is similarly degrading,

    NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Sons of Confederate Veterans in General Convention does hereby condemn in the strongest terms possible the use of the Confederate Battle Flag or any other Flag, Symbol, Seal, Title, or Name bearing any relationship whatsoever to the Confederate States of America or the Armed forces of that Government by any such extremist group or individual, of whatever name or designation.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 3:31 PM
  • JAMES KING...IF YOU THINK ANYONE WHO WAS BEATEN AND FORCED TO WORK UNDER BONDAGE WAS TREATED FAIRLY, THEN YOU NEED TO STAY IN THAT LITTLE INNER CIRCLE WHERE YOU ARE...YOU HAVE NO CLUE AND THATS WHAT KEEP UP THE CONFUSION OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG....IT'S NOT THE FLAG...IT SEEMS AS IF I KNOW MORE HISTORY ABOUT IT THAN YOU AND NAIVE COMMENTS LIKE THAT KEEP PEOPLE OF OTHER RACES BLIND ABOUT THE TRUE IDENTIFY OF IT...NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SLAVERY EXCEPT YOU...IT SHOWS WHERE YOUR DEFENSE IS AT...THATS A BLACK EYE SUBJECT AND WHEN YOU COMPARE THE FLAG AND SLAVERY, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE OF COLOR TO THINK?....YOU TAKE AWAY THE MEANING OF THE FLAG THAT HOLDS GR8 VALUE TO PEOPLE WHO HAD RELATIVES DIE FOR IT.....IT'S NO BIG DEAL TO ME...I'D RATHER SEE A CONFEDERATE FLAG THAN A ALABAMA OR FLORIDA FLAG ANYDAY...

    -- Posted by DMASE on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 4:44 PM
  • My message will probably get deleted but I will say what I have to say just like everyone else.

    Can't people see that the coverage of this article was to stir up what has already been stirred up since the article went online since the first article announcing the flag would be hung. I'm sure someone is sitting there checking as often as possible to see who is hating who on this article. That's what the media does.

    Each and everyone has their own opinion about the flag. So, no matter what anyone says, just remember that your opinion will still be the same. We don't need a breakdown of history of what all the flag means. The media has once again succeeded in getting people to hate against each other.

    Some give the flag a thumbs up, some gives it a thumbs down. That's fine. Life will go on.

    -- Posted by Sinjoines on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 5:06 PM
  • CORRECTION:

    For more information concerning the Sons of Confederate Veterans visit (www.scv.org) or call 1-800-MYDIXIE or 1-800-MYSOUTH

    Thanks

    -- Posted by SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 5:24 PM
  • To: DMASE,

    You stated that I was the first and only one to mention slavery. WRONG.

    Yes indeed someone on this comment forum did say something about slavery. It was Grasshopper46.

    Therefore I had the right to counter and post a rebuttal of his remarks about slaves being abused.

    This is what Grasshopper46 said.

    "Spoken by someone that hasn't tried to view the OTHER perspective. The flag is horribly offensive to a large number of the population in this area. To them, it represents oppression. The ancestors THEY associate with the flag were killed, beaten, raped, and enslaved senselessly".

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 5:44 PM
  • BLACKS PARTICIPATED IN SLAVERY.In the state of LA in 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves. Widow C. Richard and her son P. C. Richard owned 152 slaves. Antoine Dubuclet, owned over 100 slaves. In Charleston, SC 125 free Negroes owned slaves. Six of them owned ten or more. Mistress L. Horry, of South Carolina owned 84 slaves in 1830. The facts are in 1830 one fourth of the free Negro slave masters in SC owned 10 or more slaves. According to the U.S. 1830 Census over 3000 free blacks owned over 12,000 black slaves.

    The father of Southern slavery was a black man. Anthony Johnson was one of the first 20 blacks to arrive at Jamestown Virginia in 1619 as an indentured servant. From 1607 to 1654 a 7 year indentured servitude existed in Virginia. Being intelligent and industrious Johnson had gained his freedom and in 1654 went before the courts of Virginia (English Courts) and successfully argued that he had lifetime ownership of another fellow black, John Casor. Thus began Southern slavery in 1654. Massachusetts had been the first colony to legalize slavery by statute in 1641.

    It is a liberal myth that all slaves were mistreated. Certainly some were. Historical records indicate that most were fairly treated and some were so well treated that they considered their position in life superior to poor whites. It is a fact that the Yankee ship captains mistreated them by packing them in coffin size boxes in the lower deck of ships. But Southerners were not involved in this mistreatment and did not own ships. The Confederate flag was in no way involved in slave capture and shipping.

    It was the African Chieftains that sold their own people into slavery.

    If you want to blame flags for slavery and the mistreatment of slaves then go to the U.S. British, Dutch, Spanish flags and various African flags.

    But if American slavery had not occurred where would American blacks be today ? Many simply would not exist. Their ancestors would have been killed in tribal warfare. Look at the condition of blacks in Africa today--civil war, starvation, disease, etc.

    Having the vast knowledge I have accumulated through years of study, if I was a black, I would feel that I was indeed fortunate to be in America even though my ancestors were brought as slaves. One of our black members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans organization, H.K. Edgerton, feels exactly this way. He said in his own words "slavery was the best thing that happened to blacks". He realizes where he would be if it had not happened.

    Historical records also show that poor white factory workers in the North were in many cases not treated as well as Southern black slaves.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 6:36 PM
  • Why the Yankees Discarded Chattel Slavery:

    "Negro slavery was a flop in the North.

    The accent there was on manufacturing.

    New England had a cheaper and more efficient labor supply readily at

    hand in the white wage slaves already there and the immigrants from

    Europe who came flooding in.

    A healthy Negro field hand in 1860 cost $1000 in Virginia and as much as

    $1500 in New Orleans. ( ? $40,000 to $60,000 in today's money) The chattel slave had to be fed and clothed and

    taken care of in sickness and in health. When he got too old to work he

    had to be provided for. Some States made it illegal for slaves to be

    worked on Sundays under pain of a fine of five shillings. It was against

    the law to work a slave more than fifteen hours a day in the summer and

    fourteen hours in winter. The average work day was about eleven hours.

    The slave was given a holiday between Christmas and New Year's.

    Louisiana prescribed by law that every slave had to be given a minimum

    of 200 pounds of pork a year.

    The New England white wage slave wasn't nearly as expensive and a lot

    more efficient. He represented no capital outlay. He worked for

    starvation wages. Laborers in the North in 1860 were earning 60 cents a

    day, and a day was often 14 to 16 hours. The plight of women workers was

    even more appalling. In New York City during the Civil War, women

    umbrella workers, after laboring 18 hours from six in the morning to

    midnight, earned three dollars a week. Seamstresses in the underwear

    crafts got seventeen cents for a twelve-hour day. When the wage-slave

    got sick he went off the payroll. When worn out by age and hard work, he

    was discarded like an old shoe.

    Bells rang at daybreak in most factory towns. The wage slaves---men and

    women, boys and girls---had to report at the factory gates in fifteen

    minutes. An hour later they were allowed twenty-five minutes for

    whatever breakfast they had brought. They got another twenty-five

    minutes at mid-day. The gates opened again at 8 o'clock that night to

    let the wage slaves go home. In the Eagle Mill at Griswold, Connecticut,

    the work day lasted fifteen hours and ten minutes. At Paterson, New

    Jersey, women and children began the day's work at 4:30 o'clock in the

    morning. Overseers in some textile mills cracked a cowhide whip over the

    backs of women and children. In some factories children were chained to their work station and had to ask permission to be unchained to go to a restroom.

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 6:59 PM
  • About that liberal myth that all slaves were mistreated, the statement contradicts itself imo. Being a slave (not free) is mistreatment enough to expel the myth. Also, Blacks owning slaves in no way justifies slavery although if Blacks had owned White slaves it would have been a bit more balanced but still wrong. You stated below that the North used it (slavery) as a scapegoat to attack and subjugate the Southern states. If the South had ended slavery would that have prevent the war?

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 7:00 PM
  • Didn't I once hear someone say, "If the South would'a won, we'd had it made."

    -- Posted by dontknowwhoiam on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 9:13 PM
  • To; charleyraww,

    Thank you for your post and opinion on slavery. And thank you for debating in a civil manner. I am a 5 year veteran of defending Southern heritage, culture, symbols etc. We have a news source called SHNV (Southern Heritage News and Views) that monitors every newspaper in America daily for anti-Confederate or anti-Southern articles and posts links. There are a group of us that respond and post comments to every article. We have done a lot of research and have learned from each other. We have all the info. stored in our computers so all we have to do is copy and paste and edit it to fit the particular article or situation. Right or wrong that is the only way I have time to debate and rebut what I believe to be misinformation and ignorance.

    I am a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans organization and a descendant of many Confederate soldiers. I have traced most of my family lines back to the original immigrant ancestor. Many were notable and influential in the Colonial era and up until the end of the civil war and reconstruction. The Yankee carpetbaggers ran up taxes so high on their land that they lost it.

    Many were slave owners while others were small farmers. A 4th great uncle, Hardy Bryan, of Thomasville, Georgia owned 406 slaves at the time of his death in 1859 and 44,000 acres of land.

    Was slavery moral? Many verses in the Bible condone slavery and it has existed since the earliest records of the human race. It is debatable as to whether slavery in America met Biblical standards. Based on my research, some at least came close, and some certainly did not. The transportation of slaves by Yankee slave ships in tightly packed containers certainly did not. Several books defending slavery as Biblical were written and most Southern slave owners considered the practice Biblical. Slaves attended church and accepted Christianity. They learned trades and were converted from savages to productive individuals.

    In the current 21st century slavery is certainly obsolete and immoral and the Bible verses that uphold it are considered obsolete and rightfully so. Although I understand that slavery still exists in certain African, Arab, and Asian countries.

    My opinion is that we need to be cautious about projecting 21st century moral standards upon the pre-20th century era. During that time period slavery was considered moral. I am not going to berate, condemn, and criticize past generations for something that I may very well have participated in had I lived in that time period. If they mistreated slaves then I do condemn them for that mistreatment. It is historical fact that many Southern slave owners gave exceptional care to their slaves and records of visitors to the South described them as exceptionally happy and healthy. As a 5 year veteran of posting and reading comments of others, I do feel that the general opinion of most people today (in the 21st century) is that slaves were daily or frequently mistreated and I do not find this in the historical records which include interviews with former slaves. Liberals today seem to believe that slavery was the worst possible circumstance a human could be in. The fact is that many poor but free people of the era lived lives that were much harder than many slaves. Certainly it is human nature and part of the human will to want to be free but being free does not necessarily guarantee better living conditions, a better diet, better housing etc.

    As for your question--would the war have occurred if slavery had never existed? I believe the answer is very probably yes. All wars are over money, land, or resources. New England greed and radicals would probably have caused war regardless.

    If you or anyone else reading this comment would like a free e-mail copy of my article "The 10 Causes of the Civil War" contact me at jkingantiquearms@bellsouth.net

    -- Posted by JamesWKing on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 9:23 PM
  • Very well said Jerry!!!!!

    -- Posted by ginny2 on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 6:42 AM
  • True southern gentlemen disagree without being disagreeable and tip their hat to the ladies. ;-)

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 7:21 AM
  • JAMES KING...IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE FLAG....YOU CAN'T SEEM TO POST A COMMENT WITHOUT GOING BACK TO WHAT IT MEANS TO BLACK PEOPLE....I ALREADY KNOW THAT...TAKE YOUR PRIDE IN WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU AND STICK WITH IT...READ MY PREVIOUS COMMENT BECAUSE OBVIOUS YOU DID NOT...IT SEEMS YOU WANT TO BOAST YOUR KNOWLEDGE ON SLAVERY WHILE I AM TRYING TO FORGET MINE.....

    -- Posted by DMASE on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 7:34 AM
  • James you seem to be a slavery apologist. You spout out all these facts about how well the slaves had it. Well if you call being ripped from your homeland and forced to work for someone against your will being treated fairly, well then there is no help for you. I don't care about the flag or who flies it. It does however bother me when people like you try and make slavery seem "not so bad". That is absolutly ridiculous. Oh but it's cool cause they got off for Christmas. I guess that makes up for being kidnapped, beaten (yes, Beaten), and sold to other humans. I weep for the future.

    -- Posted by theartfuldodger on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:02 AM
  • Slavery is WRONG!

    -- Posted by chief_ty20 on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:58 AM
  • theartfuldodger, and others:

    You read, but just don't comprehend what you are reading.

    -- Posted by cadizpub on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:59 AM
  • Cadizpub, give us a break. Comprehension is as hard to understand as understanding is to comprehend.

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 11:49 AM
  • O.K.....ENOUGH IS ENOUGH...LETS MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE....

    -- Posted by DMASE on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 12:23 PM
  • I understand exactly what I'm reading. I'm reading James make excuses for slavery and trying to make it into no big deal. News flash: IT WAS A HUGE DEAL!

    -- Posted by theartfuldodger on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 12:59 PM
  • The War was fought over economic issues related to the Federal government extorting import and export tariffs from the Southern goods to fund growing Northern industrialization:

    "The South has furnished near three-fourths of the entire exports of the country. Last year she furnished seventy-two percent of the whole...we have a tariff that protects our manufacturers from thirty to fifty persent, and enables us to consume large quantities of Southern cotton, and to compete in our whole home market with the skilled labor of Europe. This operates to compel the South to pay an indirect bounty to our skilled labor, of millions annually." - Daily Chicago Times, December 10, 1860

    "They (the South) know that it is their import trade that draws from the people's pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interest.... These are the reasons why these people do not wish the South to secede from the Union. They (the North) are enraged at the prospect of being despoiled of the rich feast upon which they have so long fed and fattened, and which they were just getting ready to enjoy with still greater gout and gusto. They are as mad as hornets because the prize slips them just as they are ready to grasp it." ~ New Orleans Daily Crescent, January 21, 1861

    "What were the causes of the Southern independence movement in 1860?" "Northern commercial and manufacturing interests had forced through Congress taxes that oppressed Southern planters and made Northern manufacturers rich."..."... the South paid about three-quarters of all federal taxes, most of which were spent in the North." - Charles Adams, "For Good and Evil. The impact of taxes on the course of civilization," 1993, Madison Books, Lanham, USA, pp. 325-327

    We simply ask that all act upon the facts of history.

    -- Posted by SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 4:47 PM
  • i started the comments about this article by questioning the state gazette's news judgement by using all the space for this subject. by reading the comments of most of those who have written, i certainly feel justified in my questioning.

    the civil war was over 150 years ago; the south was treated as a step-child for over 100 of those years--we still are in many cases.

    i think what we all need to do is to look at each other as fellow human beings, all God's children, and start treating each other the way we want to be treated. we are doing nothing positive by bad-mouthing the confederate flag or liberals or consertatives or southerners or northerners. this is 2008, the 21st century! we can't change our history, but we can change our future.

    let us all kneel before God and ask for forgivness for our past mistakes and help us treat one another better in the future, white and black alike--oh yes, those that are yellow or red or whatever creed or gender.

    let's all plead with the state gazette to please start publishing news that we can use--even if some of it is the lies of politicans. that way, we can find out they are lying. no hard news and we are blinded--state gazette, please let us see!

    jerry osborne

    -- Posted by closerlook on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 7:37 PM
  • I AM VERY PROUD TO HAVE THE FLAG FLYING HIGH ABOVE MY CITY.

    PEOPLE NEED TO STOP MAKING SUCH A BIG ORDEAL ABOUT THIS.

    GET OVER IT!

    IT'S A FLAG AND ONE THAT HAS EVERY RIGHT TO BE REMEMBERED.

    IT WAS A PART OF OUR HISTORY, AND A PART THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE SLOWLY TRYING TO WRITE OUT OF OUR TEXT BOOKS.

    HOW IS THE NEXT GENERATION GOING TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS TIME IF THERE ISN'T ANYONE WHO IS ALLOWED TO TEACH IT AND/OR TALK ABOUT IT?

    IT'S NOT A RACIAL ISSUE UNTIL SOMEONE MAKES IT ONE.

    WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN ABOUT THIS? THAT IT'S OKAY TO AVOID SOMETHING IN HISTORY THAT HAPPENED?

    BY TRYING TO GET THIS FLAG REMOVED IS LIKE SAYING THE PEOPLE WHO FOUGHT AND DIED DID IT FOR NO KIND OF RECOGNITION WHAT SO EVER, AND IF THE ONES THAT HAVE PASSED ON WERE STILL HERE WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD SAY? THINK ABOUT IT.

    PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES.

    PEOPLE IT IS REALLY NOT A RACIAL ISSUE, AND THE ONLY REASON IT IS FLYING IN TRIMBLE IS B/C A VERY BRAVE SOUL STOOD UP AND TOOK UP FOR SOMETHING THAT NEEDED TO BE RECOGNIZED AND HAD ENOUGH RESPECT FOR THE ONES WHO FOUGHT AND DIED TO MAKE SURE IT WAS DONE.

    -- Posted by mandy on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:25 PM
  • Preserving Southern heritage

    The following article appears in the January 1898 issue of "Confederate Veteran" magazine. I'm reproducing it here in its entirety.

    General Vincent Marmaduke of Missouri, writes from his home at Sweet Springs an address upon the subject of history to Confederates, in which he states:

    The honor and glory of this great struggle was with the South, and Southern soldiers ought, in justice to themselves and their dead comrades, to preserve the memory of it. While the North and Northern soldiers are inveighing against all manifestation of sectional feeling, they are erecting monuments to their successful leaders and telling the story very much to their credit and our detriment.

    The North had more than four soldiers to one in the South. Its armies were reinforced and assisted by six hundred ships of war, manned by thirty-five thousand sailors. It had unlimited credit, which meant an unlimited supply of money. It had factories to manufacture everything needed to arm and equip, to supply and maintain, its armies and fleets. It had railroads running in every direction for the transportation of its troops. It had intercourse with the whole world, and could draw recruits for its army and navy from it.

    The South had none of these advantages, or had them only to a limited extent. But, notwithstanding its disadvantages, it took the North four years to crush the South, and then it did it by a grinding process and without having gained a single decisive victory.

    In a comment upon this the NASHVILLE AMERICAN says:

    Evidently it is not the purpose of Gen. Marmaduke to engender sectional feeling by the publication of this address. All of that has been laid aside, and is gone forever. But it is the duty of every enlightened Southern man to see that the truth - not biased and warped accounts - of the history of the civil war is transmitted to prosperity. The nobleness, the chivalry, the self-denial, the bravery, and the tireless endurance of the Confederate soldier should be instilled into every Southern child. No history should be taught them which pictures their ancestors as traitors and rebels. They should understand the great principles which were contended for prior to the war, which were settled by the highest tribunal in the country, the Supreme Court, favorably to the South, which the North would not accept, appealing to a "higher law" and which were finally referred to the arbitrament of the sword.

    ....Southern children ought to know of the imperishable grandeur of Gen. Lee, of the magnificence in battle of Stonewall Jackson and Albert Sydney Johnston, of the daring bravery of Forrest, of Morgan, of Cheatham. The renown of the Confederate soldier is not told in splendid monuments; it rests in the hearts of the Southern people, and there it must be kept fresh and green forever. They want their children to receive facts. From facts no conclusions can be drawn derogatory to the courage of Southern soldiers or to the genius and military prowess of Southern generals.

    ***********************

    -- Posted by SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN on Thu, Aug 7, 2008, at 8:29 PM
  • Preserving Southern heritage

    The following article appears in the August 8, 2008 issue of "True Confessions of a dirty, rotten Yankee" magazine. I'm reproducing it here in its entirety.

    True Confessions of a dirty, rotten Yankee

    Born in the South by chance and circumstance, I promptly and proudly learned we lost the war to the dirty, rotten Yankees. The South actually took pride in losing. Sure, the Yankees won the war but any conquering carpet-bagger can boast and brag. It takes a real man, a true Southerner to hold his head high in calamity.

    As a kid, when playing Cowboys and Indians, I was always the Indian. It's known as LDS, the Little Dog Syndrome. If a big dog wins a fight, so what? The big dog is supposed to win. But when the little dog wins, it sanctions unquestionable justification for conceit. So, for the first ten or eleven years of my crude, unsophisticated rural life, I was a feisty little Yankee hating Rebel. I never gave any thought to why I hated the dirty, rotten Yankees. It had nothing to do with race. I had little knowledge of history. It was entirely geographical. The Yankees lived up north.

    Then at the Ritz I saw a newsreel of citizens in a foreign country throwing rocks at Americans, burning Old Glory and waving "Yankee Go Home" signs. Well, that image did a number on my Pride of the Southland philosophy. Some of those Americans being pelted with stones were surely from the South. One might have been from Tennessee. I wondered how they might have felt being called Yankees? I wondered how I would feel being called a Yankee? Then the truth hit me like a ton of bricks. I was being called a Yankee. Those dirty, rotten foreigners were bashing all Americans, including us proud Southerners who unselfishly lost the war to save the Union.

    I was eleven or twelve. It was time to grow up. It would have been easier to eat spinish than to admit to the world I was a Yankee. It takes a real man, a truly arrogant Southern Gentleman to find honor in such a dirty, rotten confession.

    by Charley Raww,

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 5:13 AM
  • This is not a political endorsement, but placed here to present the view of a 21st century Black man as compared to the recent posts regarding slavery.

    Watch the video.

    Bet you won't see this Preacher on TV!

    http://www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr07-28-08.html

    -- Posted by SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 7:11 AM
  • That preacher is a nut!

    -- Posted by theartfuldodger on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 7:48 AM
  • Or that nut is a preacher.

    -- Posted by charleyraww on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 10:02 AM
  • I just want to say that I ususally get here and comment and joke alot but this really strikes a chord with me. I haven't see anyone really stand up and say what I'm about to say but here it goes.

    Here's an idea...let's get Jesse and Al down here. I haven't heard anything from them in the past week and I know that they have no other job than to moan and groan about how racist white people are.

    I am so sick of having the racism spoken all the time of the flag is for slavery. Yes I said racism. Is it not racist to categorize something negatively due to linkage to race? Everything that minorities can leech onto to complain about and link to slavery...god knows they will. No one should have to make excuses for anything that happened in the past because....get this, it's in the past and happened 120 years ago. I don't know anyone right now that has slaves or their parents or grandparents had slaves.

    Here's a thought...EVERYONE GET OVER IT!! Blacks, whites, hispanics, eskimos, indians, croatians...anyone who continually finds things to place the race card...STOP! America has become so "gunshy" about race that White people have begun to tuck their tales and avoid confrontation about issues. People need to stand up straight and quit feeling guilt over things that they had no control over.

    Instead of worrying about a flag, go out and help clean the community. Instead of worrying if a white DJ said the word black and hoe in the same sentence, take part in helping take back our communities here in Dyersburg. People in general need to quit making excuses for themselves and worrying about small, meaningless things. Are we going to boycott the General Lee next? How bout we boycott the new Knight Rider sitcom....they painted the car black! I think it should've been painted white! Was that a racist remark or stupidity? What's sad is that the way things are going now...thats how petty arguments are over race!

    -- Posted by timay76 on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 11:42 AM
  • HOW ABOUT GIVING MORE ATTENTION TO THE METH LABS IN TRIMBLE.....

    -- Posted by DMASE on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 12:51 PM
  • DMASE: HOW ABOUT GETTING TRIMBLE SOME ON CALL 24/7 LAW ENFORCEMENT. YES, THERE IS A MAJOR CASE OF BAD IN TRIMBLE, BUT IT'S ONLY A FEW PEOPLE WHO TRY AND FIND THE GOOD. SUCH AS, THIS FLAG BEING FLOWN. IT WAS PUT THERE TO RECOGNIZE AND PAY TRIBUTE TO OUR MEN THAT FOUGHT IN THIS ONE PARTICULAR WAR, AND SOME DIED WHILE DOING IT!! THIS WAS NOT DONE TO WELL.....LET'S GET IT STARTED.....

    -- Posted by DMASE on Tue, Aug 5, 2008, at 6:34 PM .....

    IT WAS DONE OUT OF RESPECT!!! A VERY HUGE CHARACTERISTIC THAT SOME PEOPLE CAN'T SEEM TO "MUSTER" UP AND FIND THESE DAYS.

    TIMAY76: WELL SAID HUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!! COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY AGREE. WISH THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -- Posted by mandy on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 1:05 PM
  • Timay76, your remarks are your opinion and you saying them does not make anything that you said right. They were way off the scale of respect.

    I guess if we forgot about everything that occurred in history there would be no reason to teach history in our schools. Things would happen in history and we would just get over it, foget about it and move on. Wow, what does that teach our children.

    Too bad the paper doesn't make money off of these threads. Their pockets would be full by now.

    -- Posted by Sinjoines on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 1:35 PM
  • FOR THE RECORD:

    Now, whether you like it or not, the Confederate flag is the preeminent symbol of the South -- a revered symbol of noble gallantry that has been carried by Southern servicemen, along with the US flag, overseas to fight our country's battles since WWI.

    Congressional Record of March 2, 1928, reports Senate Joint Resolution No. 41 wherein Congress recognized the title War Between The States as proper: A War was waged from 1861 to 1865 between two organized governments: the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. These were the official titles of the contending parties. It was not a Civil War as it was not fought between two parties within the same government.

    More men and women have served this country from the South over any other region in the country. In 1958, the 85th Congress recognized their loyalty and demonstrated patriotism, along with other significant reconciliation following the WBTS, in the form of US Code 38. That Code effectively deemed all Confederate Veterans, American Veterans and that all symbols, flags and banners of the Confederacy are also considered American flags according to the U.S. Congress and can not be discriminated against as such. President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the Code into law in 1959.

    -- Posted by SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN on Fri, Aug 8, 2008, at 9:24 PM
  • DMASE CAN'T GET YOU LAW ENFORCEMENT 24/7, BUT WE HAVE A SERIOUS NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD....SOME PEOPLE CALL IT NOSY, BUT I CALL IT HELPFUL...ALSO, THE PEOPLE YOU VOTE IN OFFICE, MAKE SURE THEY FOLLOW UP THE ISSUES THEY ARE PROMISING...

    -- Posted by DMASE on Sat, Aug 9, 2008, at 10:13 AM
  • I believe a few more facts and less opinion are in order:

    Lincoln's original 13th amendment.--1861

    Lincoln's attempt to entice the seceded states back into the union would surely have done so if SLAVERY had been the defining issue of secession.

    South Carolina seceded from the Union in December of 1860, signaling the onset of the WBTS . In March, 1861, President Abraham Lincoln was inaugurated. and even mentioned his support for this amendment in his first inaugural address?

    Later in 1861, President Lincoln signed a proposed 13th amendment. This was the only proposed amendment that was ever signed by a president. That resolve to amend read: "ARTICLE THIRTEEN, No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State." (In other words, President Lincoln had signed a resolve that would have permitted slavery, and upheld states' rights.) This would have easily been ratified had the Southern states not seceded in 1861.

    Not A War To Abolish Slavery:

    "On the 22nd of July, 1861, both houses of Congress, with but few dissenting votes, adopted a joint resolution which declared:

    "This war is not waged, on our part, in any spirit of oppression, nor for any purpose of conquest or subjugation, nor purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or established institutions of those States; but to defend and maintain the supremacy of the constitution, and to preserve the Union, with all the dignity, equality and rights of the several States unimpaired; that, as soon as these objects are accomplished, the war ought to cease."

    Such were the attitude of the Republican party, the avowals of President Lincoln and the enactments of Congress with respect to slavery at the time of Virginia's secession.

    (Virginia's Attitude Toward Slavery and Secession, Beverley B. Munford, L.H. Jenkins, 1909)

    -- Posted by SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN on Sat, Aug 9, 2008, at 11:58 AM
  • the "rebel"flag isn't even the flag of the confederacy.it was a battle flag,flown in battle.

    I figure you don't like it don't look at it.Does anyone actually believe that the ranting they do is gonna change someone else's mind?

    I drive around and see people with little flags on their cars,a bunch of them not American.Should I take offense to that?Of course not they are proud of their heritage.

    -- Posted by roofdad74 on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 8:21 AM
  • Sinjoines:

    I don't want people to take what I said out of context. I don't think we should forget our history...I just think that we shouldn't use it as a CRUTCH! I consider myself an educated person and am a professional member of the Dyer County community. However, when a race or a culture continuously drag something into the ground, something has to be said...whether it be thought intelligent, opinion, fact...???

    All I am saying is that my great grandmother was full blooded cherokee indian. Why don't I complain about her people being done wrong? My family is Dutch and Irish, why don't I complain about how they were treated when they came to New York and were all but slaves there until they could get down to Mississippi to build a future. The thing is...everyone struggles and everyone has thoughts and opinions. We would not be who we are today if not for the "good and bad" in history.

    I just get sick and tired of everytime anything with the south comes up, it always has to be about race. I truly feel sorry for the black community that tries to go forward and take life by the horns and be successful. They suffer from the ones that continuously use race and slavery as a crutch to feel that the world owes them something. Case in point....the other day, Congress apologized for slavery! What did this do? We as a people can't control what our ancestors did...get over it!! No one owes anyone anything today!!!

    My point in my previous post is that America has become so "RACE" weary that whites are so scared that they are going to offend other races that they have to live in a shell. Well I think that it is purely hipocritical that a person can't fly a confederate flag but they can watch the "Black Miss America" pageant. Why does black culture focus on race so much when they carry out purely racial agendas themselves. All black colleges, all black television, I even saw a commercial on television the other day that said "Are you a black farmer and have been racially discriminated against?" ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS?? This is what we have become as a society!

    There are no longer farmers...now there are black farmers! How bout we get George Lopez to run around the US acting like a dumbass like Rev. Al and scream that the Mexican farmers are begin done dirty! I'm over weight, I think I'm gonna start a group called NAAFP "National Association for the Advancement of Fat People" If everyone would just shut up and focus on the advancement of themselves, the world would be a better place. The NAACP nor the Confederate flag is going to change the fact that I have to work and support my family and guess what....I control my own life and don't blame others for my down falls!! Peace and love to all!!!

    -- Posted by timay76 on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 2:34 PM
  • It is actually funny to hear so many people talk about how the Confederate flag stands for racism and for hatred and for slavery...

    When, based on your standards you set for the Confederate flag, the American flag stands for the slavery, the murder and systematic decimation of American Indians, and then the removal of them from the lands which they had claims on when we arrived. Face facts... We killed and bought our way across the continent, stealing when we could. Don't be mad at me for bringing it up, it's your history, too.

    Don't hold one flag accountable and expect the other to stand stain free. Keep your standards the same for each. Both flags have been run through the mud, bloodied, battered, but my point is that is why we honor our flags. We remind ourselves and everyone else that that flag stood for something far greater than oneself, and is a sign of heritage and pride. Not hate, racism, or other atrocities committed under it.

    -- Posted by elementarymydearwatson on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 6:00 PM
  • Timay76,

    You said:

    "My point in my previous post is that America has become so "RACE" weary that whites are so scared that they are going to offend other races that they have to live in a shell. Well I think that it is purely hipocritical that a person can't fly a confederate flag but they can watch the "Black Miss America" pageant. Why does black culture focus on race so much when they carry out purely racial agendas themselves. All black colleges, all black television, I even saw a commercial on television the other day that said "Are you a black farmer and have been racially discriminated against?" ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS?? This is what we have become as a society!"

    People refuse to realize why "black" organizations, schools, clubs, tv shows, churches, colleges, pageants, etc. etc were formed. Blacks were not allowed to particiapte in the pageants, schools, churches, clubs, etc., etc. So, as smart as they are, they decided to form their own. They refused to be left behind.

    Also please remember that you don't have to reach way back into slavery to find racism. Everything isn't always about race no matter what race you are.

    Peace!

    -- Posted by Sinjoines on Mon, Aug 11, 2008, at 7:21 PM
  • Sin..

    I understand your point and by no means am I saying that racism subsided with the end of slavery. I understand that the organizations that the black culture formed was due to the discrimination against them. However, at this day and time, this segregation needs to be ended. As an intelligent person, you can surely see the lines that these things draw.

    The naacp is up in arms if a public college does not have at least 13% black enrollment but Grambling doesn't even have to have one white student. I read an article the other day where the black community around Moorehead was in an uproar due to a white student enrolled there, obtaining Valadictorian. They stated that this set the college back 50 years and that it overshadowed the advancement of the black students. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the same attitude that white america had in the 40's and 50's about blacks? Whites had all white programs and schools and look where it left society! So what I'm asking is why is it that the things blacks fought so hard to abolish....are the things that they hold sacred in their own culture? Do you get what I'm saying?

    That's why I'm saying that people should either drop all the barriers such as racially seperated schools and organizations....or white america should be able to do the same without ridicule from blacks. If a person cannot fly the confederate flag then another should not be able to fly an African flag. If Grambling can control its student body based on race...then UT Knoxville should also be able to chose who it allows into its college based on race. Scholarships that are awarded to minorities should also have the same requirements as though not awarded to minorities. If the Neyland Memorial Scholarship requires that a white student have a 3.6 gpa to be considered, a minority should not get to be considered with a 3.0! If everyone is looking for equality, then why don't we really act like it?

    I see things for what they are and have respect for people no matter what race, religion, or creed! I just cannot sit and watch a society continue to push towards reverse racism of the early 1900's. In today's society, people continuously utilize race to justify failure, to justify crime, to justify success, and the funny thing is that it is mostly the black community doing it now. When it was white america utilizing race...it was "sooooo wrong" but now when blacks complain and utilize race, it's taking pride in their heritage and race? If this mess keeps up and no one intervenes...we will have another race war but it will be the whites revolting against the blacks. Why repeat history when you're supposed to learn from it?

    -- Posted by timay76 on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 8:20 AM
  • Timay76

    I respect your views and will make these final comments and then leave it alone.

    In this day and time we must see that although segregation "needs" to be eneded, it has not. And yes, I as a very intelligent person can surely see that yes that it still does exist. You would be suprised at what goes on in human resource departments. They do not outwardly discriminate, but believe me there are other ways that they do.

    Someone told me that when they started working about 20 years ago they applied for a position in their department. The place of employment was a big organization. The person had recently graduated from college and had a desire for this position. She applied. Another lady in the department applied also. The position required that you pass a typing test. The college graduate passed the typing test, the other employee did not. Yes, the other employee had worked in the organization about 5 years. The manager called the college graduate in his office and announced that the position was given to the other employee because she was able to type more words per minute than the college graduate. Being a fast typist was important because the job required typing a lot of forms. The college graduate could not believe that the other person got the job. Through research, the college graduate found out that the other employee not only could not type as fast as her, but also did not even pass the typing test after many attempts. They even tried hypnosis. So, the reason that she got the job was because the manager knew someone in human resources who fudged the record for him. So, there was the black college graudate who could type 65 wpm verses the white employee who could not even pass the typing test, but got scored as 67 wpm.

    In that same department, the college graduate worked on the same level of about 7 others who no degrees. IThe colelege graduate learned her job very quickly and seemed to be a threat to the other 7 employees. Instead of promoting the college graduate to the next level (which required a degree) they decided to eliminate the degree criteria so that they could promote all of the other 7 employees so that the college graduate would not be higher in level than them but equal. After that manager left, human resources put the degree criteria back in the job title.

    I saw no equality in neither of those situations.

    So, as long as society continues to do underhanded things to people, racism and discrimination never ends. Also remember that when one person makes a statement about something does not mean that they stand for the whole group of people. Rev Al, Jesse Jackson, NAACP or whomever, does not represent the whole African American population and don't always assume that everyone stand in agreement with them or anyone else.

    An African flag and a confederate flag are not even on the same page to be comparing to me. All races in society are not perfect. All races have things and people who tear them down, but it does not make the whole race bad.

    Yes, we are supposed to learn from history. You and me believe that, but you know and I know that we don't have control of what people say and do. There are so many things under the surface that continue and when people bring them up, then people are quickly to say, "get over it" "it's just your imigination" etc. etc. You are right "some" people do use race to justify failure, but not all people.

    Society has changed, people have changed and things will never be equal.

    I'll end here and timay76, I respect you and you've opened my eyes to some things too.

    -- Posted by Sinjoines on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 9:11 AM
  • THis is the nonsense that I am talking about...please read this article about Tropic Thunder, the new movie coming out this week!

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    Mental disability groups protest 'Tropic Thunder'

    Aug. 12, 2008, 6:31 AM EST

    "Tropic Thunder" is pushing the envelope too far for groups representing the mentally disabled.

    Dozens of people from organizations such as the Special Olympics and the American Association of People with Disabilities protested the movie-industry spoof across the street from the film's Los Angeles premiere at Mann's Bruin Theatre on Monday. The protesters held up signs with slogans such as "Call me by my name, not by my label" and chanted phrases like "Ban the movie, ban the word."

    The groups are outraged over scenes featuring the liberal usage of a disparaging term used to describe the mentally disabled. In the movie, director and co-star Ben Stiller plays a fame-hungry actor cast in a war movie who previously had a role as a mentally disabled character named Simple Jack. The DreamWorks film, which opens Wednesday, also stars Robert Downey Jr. and Jack Black.

    "When I heard about it, I felt really hurt inside," said Special Olympics global messenger Dustin Plunkett. "I cannot believe a writer could write something like that. It's the not the way that we want to be portrayed. We have feelings. We don't like the word retard. We are people. We're just like any other people out there. We want to be ourselves and not be discriminated against."

    Andrew J. Imparato, president of the American Association of People with Disabilities, said he and other representatives from advocacy groups representing the mentally disabled met with DreamWorks co-chair Stacey Snider and watched a private screening of the film Monday morning. Imparato called the movie "tasteless" and said it was "offensive start to finish."

    "I have a sense of humor," said Imparato. "There were parts of the movie where I laughed, but it seems to me that the movie tried really hard to go too far and then pull back on everything that was offensive except the issue of people with intellectual disabilities. I just think Ben Stiller and the people involved in this movie just didn't think it was going to be offensive."

    Following the original complaints from the advocacy groups, DreamWorks pulled some promotional materials, including a Web site that promoted the film-within-a-film starring Stiller's character which contained the tag line "Once there was a retard." DreamWorks spokesman Chip Sullivan previously said in a statement that "no changes or cuts to the film will be made."

    "If you want to pick on people, as the old playground saying goes, pick on people your own size," said Timothy Shriver, chairman of the Special Olympics, who is calling for a boycott of "Tropic Thunder" along with the other groups. "This population struggles too much with the basics to have to struggle against Hollywood. We're sending a message that this hate speech is no longer acceptable."

    -- Posted by timay76 on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 9:24 AM
  • Sin... very well said and I appreciate your views on the topic. Always nice to debate an issure and no one have to curse, sling mud, or reduce themselves to childish bickering!

    -- Posted by timay76 on Tue, Aug 12, 2008, at 9:29 AM
  • I was always taught not to believe everything I'm told or taught; and if I should ever question something I should research it. If everyone griping about this flag would research the facts that surround it they would learn that it has nothing to do with the black community. And as for slavery....which I have also researched, there were many types. White & Black people owned slaves. The slaves consisted of Native American's, Black's & Whites. This whole slave thing ended on or around December of 1865. 143 years ago. The way I see it, I haven't done a darn thing to anybody and neither did any of my family that I can remember. So get on with your lives and move forward......Talk about dwelling on the past. I'm tired of people blaming people this day and age for something they didn't have a hand in.

    -- Posted by smhayes65 on Wed, Aug 13, 2008, at 5:45 PM
  • I may not have the right to comment on this situtation at hand, beings that all of my family is from the north, Irland, Canada, France, Germany, Holland, and England. I moved to Tennessee when I was just about to turn 13. To move to an area of the country that was so far removed from what I was use to in the North and out west, was a total culture shock for me. I was taught that America was known as the "Melting pot" for those that left their home country to try and make a better life for their families. This was not the case. Blacks were on one side of the town, whites the other. I remember when I started high school, you were always worned not to travel down Grayson, Monroe, or Jackson St in Newbern and you were to stay away from Upper Finley Rd/Forrester Rd in Dyersburg after dark. Why, when we are suppose to be the best country in the world, when we seperate ourselves from the others because, "Momma, the do not have the same skin color as us", or because of a flag? Why do we have to fight over a dang'd ol' flag?

    This flag is being flown over the graves of men that fought for the freedom off all men, women, and children, regardless of their color, background, or origins. If those that are so "Upset" about the flag remembers, there were black people, (not African Americans,for there are no Irish-Americans, French-Americans, so on. We are either Causasion, Black, Mexican decent, and so forth) that fought in this war. War. There. That is what the flag is about. War.

    Think about this. When a man/woman is down in another country, do they not raise our flag, the United States of America Flag to honor the fallen? Do they not leave the flag on the soil of the other country? Yes, they do. It is in respect for the fallen. So, what is the problem with the Conferderate flag flying over the graves of those that fell for their country? History also states that this same flag was the flag for the southern half of the United States. Remember the Mason Dixson line?

    It is time for people to stop fighting and see that the flag is just that, a flag. If you want something to really argue and grip about, look at the gas prices, look at the run-down houses in your neighborhoods that harbor drug dealers and all sorts of crime. Take a stand and do something a little more productive and make a positive mark on your community. Stop gripping and just get out there and do it!

    -- Posted by momofthreeboys on Thu, Aug 14, 2008, at 1:54 PM
  • I am glad the Confederate flag is flying at Trimble. It flies in many places in Tennessee, including Franklin, Tennessee, where Nissan North American has its headquarters.

    -- Posted by PastorMike on Sat, Aug 16, 2008, at 1:50 PM
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